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January 05, 2006

Comments

Jep Castelein

Richard,

I posted a short comment on our weblog explaining how the Backbase Search demo has evolved over time: http://www.backbase.com/weblog/?p=16. I hope that explains why we didn't think of linking to the Rico LiveGrid demo.

Jep Castelein, Backbase

Laurens Holst

Hi Richard,

It is not uncommon for people to have the same idea that others have at the same time, or even years apart. I have that on numerous occasions, a neat application or feature appearing on the internet, and me thinking ‘heh, I thought of that two years ago’. For example, the Backbase software has been in development by our CTO since long before the current ‘AJAX’ hype, so all of this is kind of deja-vu to us as well.

But, if the idea has evolved separately, I do not believe that credit is due.

To quote Eric Meyer, as he put it in his ‘Bar Graphs with Style’ weblog post:

“A lot of the time, when I’m sharing a technique or effect I’ve devised, I’ll say something like “I doubt I’m the first to think of this…” or “it may not be original, but it’s original to me…”. This might strike some as an annoying quirk, some sort of pseudo-modesty that I should either embrace fully or just drop already.

However, I do it because I know it’s true. Even some of the most radical experiments I’ve published, like those on css/edge, were prefigured or anticipated by others. I didn’t steal anyone’s ideas, of course. Every one of those demos was an original creation born of my knowledge and thinking. They just weren’t necessarily the very first instance of those techniques ever published anywhere. Other ideas, like Universal Child Replacement, were devised before I hit upon them but were never documented.”

So I hope you can forgive us for not doing an intensive case study for each of our controls before releasing it, that would create a lot of extra work. I wonder who made the first datepicker popup, whether it is properly given credit by everyone creating one, and whether being the first to make a JavaScript implementation of a widget that already exists in desktop applications is sufficient reason to receive credit at all (sarcasm intended :)).

Anyways, don’t be too quick just ‘assuming’ that we somehow stole this idea from Open Rico. Maybe you aren’t aware of this, but we had a Google demo long before this Yahoo demo, so we were already experimenting with interfacing with search engines like this (so yes, the fact that we used Yahoo for this as well is a coincidence, Yahoo allows more search queries than Google does), and I’d say the idea for the livegrid stemmed from a combination of this demo, our ‘suggest’ search box example, and desktop applications’ use of scrollbars in listviews.

Rant over. :)


~Grauw

Laurens Holst

(p.s. I’m not speaking on behalf of Backbase, for that please refer to Jep’s tactful reply ^_^).

Laurens Holst

OK, it seems we /were/ inspired by Open Rico’s live grid demo :). So much for my youthful hurried assumption, ehehe. Maybe I should have looked at it first. Nevertheless, the rest of my comment stands ^_^.

~Grauw

rcowin

Jep & Grauw,

I completely understand.
I did not intend to be quite so arrogant to think that Rico is the creator or owner of any such ideas. Just, a bit surprised at the similarities.

I also consider it flattery that we might inspire others ;)

In truth, there is a ton of overlap in the innovations that are occurring in the area of web components and behaviors. The rapid growth of new ideas evolution in this space is quite exciting. I think Backbase has been very innovative in this space and has created some great components and demos that stand on their own.

Any way, I expect there to be plenty of great choices in the web component space this year. Best of Luck.

Richard

james governor

use it for context Richard. you can make the same claim you did versus Laszlo. Rico offers the same function with no proprietary tags. it contextualises your framework, and potentially creates buzz. don't get mad, get even, and get linked to - or is that the same thing. the backbase stuff is slick, but it is a proprietary AJAX flavour.

Alex

I notice that Backbase's version allows for an "updating results..." message which can presumably be substituted for an animated gif.

Whilst in an ideal world servers and connections are fast enough that this type of visual feedback shouldn't be necessary, in reality results can sometimes be slow to update.

Does the Open Rico implementation allow for a message and/or animated image to appear in a similar way and/or might it be relatively painless to add this functionality?

Alex.

rcowin

Alex,
I started to include an animated icon option in LiveGrid, in the upper right square. However, I thought that people might want something larger outside of the table itself. I will add an example to one of the demos.

Richard

Alex

Hi Richard,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I can deffinately see the benefit of an animated icon as well as people having the choice as to whether they include it or not so an example would be great.

Thanks,

Alex.

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